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Old 11-17-2018, 05:06 PM   #1
Buddy Lembeck
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Default 2019 HOF Voting

Here's our first genius voter:

Voted for 9 so far.

Clemens and Sosa in, Bonds in question marks
Pettitte in
Andruw in
Rolen in
Vizquel in
Edgar in question marks

Mi voto para la boleta 2019 para el Salón de la Fama de Cooperstown:
-Mariano Rivera
-Roy Halladay
-Scott Rolen
-Roger Clemens
-Sammy Sosa
-Omar Vizquel
-Andruw Jones
-Andy Pettitte
-Todd Helton
-¿Fred McGriff, Barry Bonds, Manny Ramírez o Edgar Martínez?

Note the pic below was his 2018 ballot


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Old 11-17-2018, 08:51 PM   #2
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Andruw Jones is an absolutely obvious roider IMO. Why vote him before Bonds?
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:02 PM   #3
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I'd put all four of those question marks in before Pettitte, Vizquel or Rolen. Bonds, Manny and Edgar should all already be in, and I've always thought McGriff is closer than people give credit for, what hurts him most is his position, obviously.

Andruw is an all-time defender with really good power, average/OBP doesn't cut it though
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:13 PM   #4
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Andruw Jones is probably the second-most overrated player in the history of baseball behind Jeter (Jeter was overrated, but definitely a Hall of Famer).

Andruw Jones was a young All-Star who’s career was toast once he hit his 30s.

He’s basically Justin Upton.

His career OPS+ is tied for 660th all-time in MLB history, with Nick Esasky, Brad Fuller and Adam LaRoche, Hal Moris, Kevin Seitzer and 22 other guys.

Trot Nixon, Adam Lind and Dave Magadan are higher.


And of course, 58 of his 62 career WAR came in the 11 years right before MLB drug testing and he had 4 WAR in six season from age 31-36 after testing.
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:38 PM   #5
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Though, the more I think about Rolen- someone tell me why he only got 10% of the vote last year.

Brooks Robinson is in the Hall. Rolen's not quite as good defensively, but he's still an all-time defender at 3B and his offensive numbers are better.

Robinson:
Third Base (8th):
78.4 career WAR / 45.8 7yr-peak WAR / 62.1 JAWS
Average HOF 3B (out of 14):
68.4 career WAR / 43.0 7yr-peak WAR / 55.7 JAWS

Rolen:
Third Base (10th):
70.2 career WAR / 43.7 7yr-peak WAR / 56.9 JAWS
Average HOF 3B (out of 14):
68.4 career WAR / 43.0 7yr-peak WAR / 55.7 JAWS


One's in and the other gets 10% of the vote?
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according to my calculations Wheeler gonna do work
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:00 PM   #6
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Schilling
Starting Pitcher (27th):
79.6 career WAR / 48.7 7yr-peak WAR / 64.1 JAWS
Average HOF P (out of 63):
73.4 career WAR / 50.1 7yr-peak WAR / 61.8 JAWS

Mussina
Starting Pitcher (29th):
83.0 career WAR / 44.5 7yr-peak WAR / 63.8 JAWS
Average HOF P (out of 63):
73.4 career WAR / 50.1 7yr-peak WAR / 61.8 JAWS

Pettitte
Starting Pitcher (90th):
60.2 career WAR / 34.1 7yr-peak WAR / 47.2 JAWS
Average HOF P (out of 63):
73.4 career WAR / 50.1 7yr-peak WAR / 61.8 JAWS
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:07 PM   #7
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I've always thought Schilling should be in. On top of the numbers, he vanquished the big bad Yankees twice, including when they were nigh-unbeatable and again in the craziest comeback ever.

Fuck him though, I don't feel bad for him anymore.
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:09 PM   #8
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Mussina is a lock. Schilling will get in too if he keeps his mouth shut. Pettitte doesnt deserve to get past the first ballot.
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:14 PM   #9
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Here's Halladay

Starting Pitcher (43rd):
64.3 career WAR / 50.6 7yr-peak WAR / 57.5 JAWS
Average HOF P (out of 63):
73.4 career WAR / 50.1 7yr-peak WAR / 61.8 JAWS


I bet his death helps him get first ballot
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:18 PM   #10
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2019
Edgar
Mariano
Halladay

2020
Jeter
Mussina

2021-2022
Schilling
Bonds
Clemens
Vizquel (ugh)
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:20 PM   #11
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Maybe Brooks Robinson shouldn't have gotten in?

Granted, I only saw him play in the second half of his career.
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:30 PM   #12
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Santo: .277/.362/.464 (.826) 125OPS+ 9397PA
70.5 WAR 62.2 JAWS

Molitor: .306/.369/.448 (.817) 122OPS+ 12167PA
75.7 WAR 57.7 JAWS

Rolen: .281/.364/.490 (.855) 122OPS+ 8518PA
70.2 WAR 56.9 JAWS

Wright: .296/.376/.491 (.867) 133OPS+ 6872PA
50.4 WAR 45.3 JAWS [Stupid fucking back]
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSchmack View Post
Andruw Jones is probably the second-most overrated player in the history of baseball behind Jeter (Jeter was overrated, but definitely a Hall of Famer).

Andruw Jones was a young All-Star who’s career was toast once he hit his 30s.

He’s basically Justin Upton.

His career OPS+ is tied for 660th all-time in MLB history, with Nick Esasky, Brad Fuller and Adam LaRoche, Hal Moris, Kevin Seitzer and 22 other guys.

Trot Nixon, Adam Lind and Dave Magadan are higher.


And of course, 58 of his 62 career WAR came in the 11 years right before MLB drug testing and he had 4 WAR in six season from age 31-36 after testing.
Defense matters
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:54 PM   #14
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Andruw Jones isn't really overrated. Yeah, he was toast when he hit his 30s, but he still managed to put up over 60 WAR in his career

definitely behind Beltran in the fringe-HOF CF debate but I can see him getting in based on being the "best OF defender of his generation" or whatever and I wouldn't mind
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy Lembeck View Post
Santo: .277/.362/.464 (.826) 125OPS+ 9397PA
70.5 WAR 62.2 JAWS

Molitor: .306/.369/.448 (.817) 122OPS+ 12167PA
75.7 WAR 57.7 JAWS

Rolen: .281/.364/.490 (.855) 122OPS+ 8518PA
70.2 WAR 56.9 JAWS

Wright: .296/.376/.491 (.867) 133OPS+ 6872PA
50.4 WAR 45.3 JAWS [Stupid fucking back]
Man. Sometimes we forget what an awesome career he still had.

:(
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according to my calculations Wheeler gonna do work
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:07 PM   #16
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Andy Pettitte should not be a HOF
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:10 PM   #17
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Not on merit and not on the fact that the dude got caught doing steroids. Is it a bar to entry or not? If it’s not there’s like 30 guys ahead of Andy pettitte in that bucket including literally the best or second best baseball player in history
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy Lembeck View Post
Santo: .277/.362/.464 (.826) 125OPS+ 9397PA
70.5 WAR 62.2 JAWS

Molitor: .306/.369/.448 (.817) 122OPS+ 12167PA
75.7 WAR 57.7 JAWS

Rolen: .281/.364/.490 (.855) 122OPS+ 8518PA
70.2 WAR 56.9 JAWS

Wright: .296/.376/.491 (.867) 133OPS+ 6872PA
50.4 WAR 45.3 JAWS [Stupid fucking back]
:MG5sad
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Old 11-18-2018, 12:01 AM   #19
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I refuse to recognize an institution that does not recognize Jim Edmonds.
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Old 11-18-2018, 01:52 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by ugottaBelieve View Post
Maybe Brooks Robinson shouldn't have gotten in?

Granted, I only saw him play in the second half of his career.
I mean his JAWS passes the smell test- but so does Rolen's, who can't get a sniff (sorry, I'll stop using odoriferous metaphors)
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